Talk:Ælfwine (Tolkien)

This article was nominated for deletion on 21 November 2019. The result of the discussion was keep.

Middle-earth Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle-earth, which aims to build an encyclopedic guide to J. R. R. Tolkien, his legendarium, and related topics. Please visit the project talk page for suggestions and ideas on how you can improve this and other articles.Middle-earthWikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earthTemplate:WikiProject Middle-earthTolkien articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Note: Though it states in the Guide to writing better articles that generally fictional articles should be written in present tense, all Tolkien legendarium-related articles that cover in-universe material before the current action must be written in past tense. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earth/Standards for more information about this and other article standards.

This article was nominated for merging with Tolkien's legendarium on 28 November 2019. The result of the discussion (permanent link) was Merge.

Untitled

True, straight road didn't exist in BotL, but Ælfwine was present also in later (even post-LotR) writings, where the Straight Road did exist. Ausir 11:01, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Check out Special:Whatlinkshere/MediaWiki:Tolkienstub — why is this page listed? |Anárion

Some database error, I believe, because it was stubbed in the beginning. Ausir 20:47, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

infobox?

does this page need a character infobox? Nuidramdad (talk) 00:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ælfwine

Ælfwine is a common Old English name. This page should be move and made a dab. - Calgacus 21:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguity of "Bilbo's translations"

Under the heading Canonicity in the later continuity the last sentence of the final paragraph concludes:

Ælfwine was to somehow remain in the tangled-web of history surrounding the transition of The Silmarillion and other writings from Bilbo's translations into Modern English. [emphasis mine]

My problem is with "the transition of The Silmarillion and other writings from Bilbo's translations into Modern English." Reading this, for an instant I found myself wondering whether one of the contributors to the article mistakenly thought that Bilbo translated "The Silmarillion and other writings" into Modern English.

As a suggestion, maybe this reading would be less jarring:

Ælfwine was to somehow remain in the tangled web of history surrounding the transition into Modern English of The Silmarillion and other writings from Bilbo's translations. [minus my emphasis]

If noone objects or has a better suggestion, I may make this change. (I also removed the unnecessary “–” between “tangled” and “web”.)

Gltackett (talk) 19:27, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In Middle-earth canon, Bilbo wrote the Red Book mentioned in the article in Tolkien's fictional language Westron. Tolkien later made The Lord of the Rings look like a translation of this old "record" of Bilbo's into modern English. I agree though that the current wording of the article is a bit awkward, so how about:

...and other alleged translations from Bilbo's book into modern English.

De728631 (talk) 20:37, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Elfwine

I wonder how Elfwine, the son of Éomer and Lothíriel fits into Tolkien's concept. The names are clearly related but I don't have any sources at hand to link the two. Anyone know this better? De728631 (talk) 20:49, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

speculation?

“

However the later writings of Tolkien indicate that he didn't fully abandon the idea of a framework akin to the Ælfwine-tradition, far into the latter years of his life; there may be some evidence that, even after the time of the "Red Book" concept, Ælfwine was to somehow remain in the tangled-web of history surrounding the transition of The Silmarillion and other writings from Bilbo's translations into Modern English.

”

There may be evidence?! The most generous interpretation I can give this is that it meant to say "there is ambiguous evidence which may imply...", in which case it would be good if someone could say what that evidence is. Otherwise delete the passage. —Tamfang (talk) 08:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is a very clumsy phrasing. It is clear from stuff in the two books on the post-LotR Silmarillion writings (Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels) that Tolkien retained Ælfwine as translator and commenter. I have corrected the wording and added a specific citation to the article Troelsfo (talk) 10:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When would he have lived?

Did Ronald Tolkien ever make it clear when his fictitious Ottor Wǽfre would have lived? Based on him being able to read and write his mother tongue I think it would have been the 9th, 10th or 11th centuries.

2015-01-03 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Merge undone

J Milburn, I have been advised that it is OK to start a "Merge" discussion after an AfD ends in "Keep". I have been advised that "Keep" includes "Merge". Merging was not raised at the AfD discussion and was not ruled out. I followed the instructions at WP:Merging and merged after one week as there was unanimous support. On what basis did you undo the merge?--Jack Upland (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Having received no response, and seeing as the existing situation duplicates the information, I will redo the Merge.--Jack Upland (talk) 17:50, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracy in the 'Frame story: early links with Britain'

The current text has:

In The Book of Lost Tales, begun early in Tolkien's writing career, the character who becomes Ælfwine was named Ottor Wǽfre (called Eriol by the Elves), and his tale serves as a frame story for the tales of the Elves. He set out from what is today called Heligoland on a voyage with a small crew but was the lone survivor after his ship crashed upon the rocks near an island. The island was inhabited by an old man who gave him directions to Eressëa.

The part I bolded concerns Ælfwine, a framework character that was created by Tolkien as a replacement for Ottor, with his own backstory (one that dates c. 5 centuries after Ottor) - yet this text conflates the two.

I would go out of my way to cite a source but the source for the bolded part is self-evident: "Ælfwine of England" ("The History of Eriol or Ælfwine"), The Book of Lost Tales Part II (pp. 312-7).

Seeing how I'm quite new to wikipedia, I'll refrain from editing as yet. IvarTheBoneless123 (talk) 05:28, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for asking. Yes, something has got tangled up here and the sole ref is wrong. I've tweaked the text, added a brief account of Ottor, and added refs for both Ottor and Ælfwine. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]